The virtue of excellence

Wednesday, July 22, 2009

Truthiness

I am dissatisfied with the standard two-valued propositional nature of logic.
I keep running into situations wherein someone makes a claim, and the claim either has an unknowable truth value or is incoherent.
As far as I can tell, binary truth values break down for cases where there is (or can be) NO evidence supporting or denying a position.
In this situation, the rational Bayesian gets kinda stuck.

Proposed solution: Add truth values:
True, False, Unknowable, Incoherent

I will use an example here. Atheism is the argument I know the best, and I land firmly in that camp. However, there's all sorts of pitfalls along the way to a coherent/consistent Bayesian Atheism.

So for instance, Tyler Cowen, a relatively well known Athiest, has claimed ~10% likelihood for the existence of (something like) God. It is assumed that he similarly includes ~90% likelihood for God does not exist.

However, (and somewhat unsurprisingly) the doctrinaire atheist position is not there.
First, the doctrinaire atheist has a bunch of logical traps to dodge.

First standard atheist position: A-theism means Without Theism meaning does not believe in a God. This is distinct from the proposition that they believe God does not exist. Burden of proof is elsewhere.

Kinda. I mean, sure, in an argument with other people, you say I don't see it, they say it exists, their burden of proof. But whatever...your job as a functioning rational creature is to make your best assessment of the situation, and as Eliezer Yudkowsky has pointed out more than once, that assessment involves presenting the best argument you can for the opposing position, not just accepting their lame arguments. So...burden of proof is an irrelevant topic in the search for truth, even though it's relevant to debates.

So...given that we have a proposition about "god", and we are responsible for finding the truth value of the proposition, what do we do?

Second standard Atheist position: standard "God" is either inconsistent or incoherent.

Inconsistency is where life gets interesting. A good Bayesian can eliminate some inconsistent "God"s from the possibility set ... while maintaining a healthy 1-3% skepticism that suggests that the individual's inconsistency checker is on the fritz. Hell, I can't expect take a 100 question standardized test on topics I know cold without missing on the order of 1-3 from my errors. And God is a harder topic than all the standardized tests.

Incoherent is where I run into difficulties:
What the do you do with an "incoherent/unknowable" position here?
True, false? No. You label it inapplicable to true/false. But you're still in a place where you may be wrong in your judgement, and that's where the fun comes in.
Roughly the strongest incoherentist position would be:
96% incoherent, 2% true, 2% false.

But then you go back to the Yudkowskian practice of intellectual generosity: If the smartest person you know said "God exists", what would they have meant? In that case...it gets more interesting. I'm going out on a limb here, and suggesting that the essence of the theist position is that there is a sentient creator of the seen universe...think perhaps a jupiter brain playing "Life".

What kind of probability numbers can one place on that? Robin Hanson and others likes to write on the topic. However, I'm going to suggest here that you'd need some evidence one way or another in order to make a decision. And furthermore, I've got a strong inclination to believe that it is impossible to be shown evidence that distinguishes between smart aliens and super-intelligent creators.

Which gives me a 90% epistemically unknowable, 10% unknown?

Oh shucks...I just realized that I should also be putting error bars around my probability estimates. :P

But it's worse than that...suppose you have reason to believe, as per Robin Hanson above, or the standard Unitarian Universalist, that your actions may impact something or not, based on the truthiness of the epistemically unknowable results? That's a hard question.

Anyhow...enough thinking on epaper.

4 comments:

Andrew said...

I love that Tierney NYT piece! He is my favorite working science journalist.

I hate the word 'truthiness' from the Colbert world...which is one reason I never replied weeks ago here. Another reason is that your musings sound EXACTLY like the age-old NEVERENDING (maybe literally, still ongoing?) humanities.philosophy.objectivism thread titled roughly "True, False, Arbitrary."

Famously, L. Peikoff advanced it ("T, F, A") as a true trichotomy for propositional logic in his book OPAR. Many of us found this absurd, and increasingly absurd upon further and further examination. I ended up deciding:

1) There are many ultimately MEANINGLESS (incoherent, basically) propositions that philosophy professors usually insist be treated as meaningful propositions. Those professors are just wrong.

2) Well-formed, meaningful propositions are each either true or false.

3) Some statements (English sentences, say) give rise to two or more ENTIRELY DIFFERENT propositional structures in the minds of different reasonable listeners/readers. Each propositional structure then independently resolves as either meaningless or as an actual proposition.

4) Different reasonable listeners/readers can differ for all sorts of relevant reasons (experiences of the world, knowledge of the speaker/writer, whatever). None of this matters one whit. Just more red herrings.

I suppose that attaching error bars to the very *resolution* of complicated propositional structures (into propositions) is permissable, if ya really wanna geek out ;)

Aretae said...

I tried TFA in writing this post, though without remembering OPAR from reading in '92. It doesn't work.

Your 4 point answer is loosely correct but too simple as well (how many times have I said you're not complex enough? 1 now, right?), though I may not have outlined it well enough in my post.

Problem lies in correspondence theory of truth, and gets messy no matter what epistemology you throw at it.

What is (nature of reality) != What we know.

Propositions can be sensical/nonsensical.

Sensical propositions must also be true or false.

However, not all sensical propositions must be knowable.

Bayesians point out that epistemologically, it makes little sense to label contested propositions as blatantly true or false, but rather as p% true, q% false.

However, this uncertainty about judgement also applies to uncertainty about arbitrariness, knowability.

In science we put error bars, in order to indicate uncertainty.

In engineering, project risk analysis, and poker, we don't put error bars (yes, this is a reversal), but instead use error bars to bump up our probability of being wrong.

If this were silly abstract statements about truth, this would be rough. However, we ain't playing that game. What we as humans care about is what to do, not some ding-an-sich(is this just quintessential American pragmatism shining through?). So the (sometimes invisible) placement of an p/q error is proper on any statement...

Andrew said...

(how many times have I said you're not complex enough? 1 now, right?)

HA

And, I'm gonna try to stand by my newfound simplicity here.

Problem lies in correspondence theory of truth, and gets messy no matter what epistemology you throw at it.

Nah. Truth is truth. Correspondence exists ;)

JUSTIFICATION (questions of certainty, of approaching truth) is a different thing.

It's useful to separate the twain in all the 'tough' cases I've thought about, including the ones you've raised.

Whether or not we're ultimately WRONG about ALL THAT WE THINK KNOW (because of Descartes' demon or Jews In Space)...'truth' simpliciter is an incredibly useful pure distilled concept for our species.

If any sufficiently abstract concepts are worth having, unadulterated TRUTH is one.

Alrenous said...

There's an answer to this.

When you're asking a question like 'Does God exist?' where both 'yes' and 'no' don't add up, the problem is you're asking the wrong question.

The flaw is actually further down the logical consequence tree, where you answered a previous question wrong. My example, "Does the universe need a creator?" If you answer yes, then you end up wondering about God, but the true answer is no.

Obviously, if you assume falsity, your conclusions are going to be nonsense.

There's also my eternal favourite, "I don't know." Try to answer a question that relies on an answer you're ignorant of, you'll probably get nonsense.

In all these cases, it amounts to an abuse of language. In (idealized) Lojban, you wouldn't even be able to state such propositions.


In short, Andrew above is right.


Since you mentioned correspondence, I will mention I'm a hybrid correspondence/coherentist. Starting with sense impressions as axioms, everything must be logically coherent.

But of course sense impressions end up corresponding to the external world...


And mainly for my own practise, a simpler example. "My car isn't moving, is it broken?" Well, neither yes nor no. I don't own a car.