The virtue of excellence

Friday, January 13, 2012

Foundational Epistemology -- part IV

I would say that the core insight (that I have taken away) from philosophy is that if you start in the middle, you will conclude only whatever assumptions are relatively embedded in the terms of the question that you ask. All interesting philosophical discussions start at a topic, and walk backwards.  Forwards just doesn't happen.  So...the Cartesian strategy of starting at the beginning has emerged as the only sane one.  Let's not give any room to go backwards.

So...a foundationalist inductivist like me suggests that we start at the beginning ... with what we sense...and mvoe forward from there.  Any even moderately competent developmental psychologist will point out that we do indeed appear to start from nowhere...There is no CONTENT to our minds at birth (only structure)...indeed, to reference mind at the beginning is a bit much.  Instead...we have reflexes, and built-in preferences, and a brain structure that will accumulate information.

In the first few months, an infant functions more or less as a machine...if (unpleasantness) then {cry}. If (pleasure) then {more}. Pleasureable/Painful (good/bad) is the primary awareness of the child.  It predates everything else by a LONG time (months).  Somewhat after that, by observation, the child develops (by observation) the distinction between self and not-self (things I control, things I don't).  Eventually, the child has control of it's own muscles.  Later, the notion of the external world as regular arrives (object permanence).    Soon thereafter, it moves into the primary animal-kingdom conditioning pattern.  If (good response), increase frequency of (prior behavior), but unlike other animals, it also has vocal cords, brain modules designed for language acquisition, and built-in pleasure from communicating

After this, we develop the capability to handle number...Montessori on the process of acquisition of the concept of number permanence is irreplaceable here.  Also...it does an awful good job of making one laugh at Pythagoras, Plato, and Bertrand Russell's attempts to argue for number as something beyond inductivist positions.

Long after that...we develop the notion of other perspectives.  What I see/believe is not what you see/believe.  Piaget did the experiments...it's near 6yo that this ability emerges.  Also, we separate the world into intentional and inert sometime early in life (between ~3? and 9).  

Being aware that the human brain creates the notion of the not-self (and by contrast the self) sometime after  months of observing the world seems to me to be essential to any undestanding of foundational philosophy.  The external world is NOT a postulate...it is a conclusion that is the best predictive hypothesis from sense data.

An awful lot of the first categories that we learn as human beings are things.  Mama.  Dada.  Dog.  Appuh.  'Puter.    An awful lot of what we do when learning concepts is observe things in the world...hear a (new) word used to describe a thing...and then create a mental (fuzzy) circle separating "things like that" from "things not like that".  However, that's not all of learning, that's mostly learning of nouns, and some other parts of speech.  A different huge amount of child-word-acquisition is "If I say X, I get results Y"...and calculating based on X=>Y.

Also...early on (3?) a preliminary forms of ethics evolves in the human child.   Early ethics ~= Justice: To each what they deserve.  Nice people deserve good stuff.  Mean folks should be punished.

Most of the rest of child ethics is a result of predictive adult-management.  If I say "God is good," or "Save the environment", I get praise from parent...so do.  The statements are moderately content-free when said for the first 100 times.   The insidiousness of this is that phrases are being attached to a child's emotional substrate at a point prior to the child's ability to even identify whether the phrases have meaning.  Only folks who are aspie-ish will ever go back and screw with this conditioning.

Sometime near 14 (minus, say, 1 -1.5 years per sigma), the mind matures further, and becomes capable of handling abstraction in a decent way....now that the foundational stuff of having constructed an internal set of tags associating words with things is handled.  Of course, also in the same time frame, hormones flood our bodies, and our ability to focus on non-sexual stuff drops remarkably for ~4 years.

ASIDE:  this gives notably advanced kids, or hormonally delayed kids an enormous advantage that I've not head discussed previously: their primary abstract learning years (10-14) occur in a relatively hormone-free environment.  Further, given that girls hit the hormones earlier...does that damage their chance to learn abstractly?  Also, Blacks have earlier sexual maturity.  This may cause issues given hormones.  Does this imply that single-sex schools are more important for girls and blacks than for whites, asians, and boys.   Or does the age of abstraction drop as well?  Normal folks hit the age of mental abstraction roughly at the age they lose the interest in making mental abstractions.

So...when we reach the age of intellectual maturity (20?)...our brains are roughly adult brains...however most philosophers approaching questions here have forgotten that most (all?) of our CONCEPTS are "tap-it" concepts, with the concept itself having been created from experience...and that many of our WORDS are effect-based words, not words with referents.

As a foundationalist...it is my intent to attach meaning to words by reference to referents in the world that I can tap (cat), point-to (there is obviously some emotion being experienced by 2 people who cannot seem to keep their hands off one another -- Since people are all ~the same...that emotion [as said by a 10yo]), reference by date (Remember what I felt like that day when...).  Mostly, this is because otherwise...I don't know WTF you're talking about...and I assert that most likely neither do you.

Mostly, I don't believe that people are doing more than mouthing desires when they talk about stuff that they can't take back to taps.

9 comments:

imnotherzog said...

Again, I don't care what you call it, I think it is hard to argue (although I'm not sure if you are arguing this) that an "apple" exists independently of a human being in the physical world and had properties that you would characterize with an appeal to chemistry/physics and I would characterize using metaphysics (telos).

My local YMCA, which is sort of famous for having a minature replica of the leaning tower of Pisa, had a kettleball club. They didn't seem like they were in great shape...

Aretae said...

Herz,

A. The apple exists independently of me.
B. My understanding of the apple doesn't exist independently of me.
C. Your telos is in category B, not catgory A.
D. The reason we start with epistemology instead of metaphysics is to understand whether the other stuff we're saying makes sense. Words/concepts have meaning, not always the same between people or context, and derived from the real world. If you don't start there...you are making shit up, and assuming it's true.
E. Telos is a HUGELY derived position.

Isegoria said...

Aretae, you mentioned Montessori briefly — and approvingly. I know you've given education some thought. Do you approve of Montessori overall, or just its early math materials?

Aretae said...

Montessori was, very simply, the best experimentalist education has ever seen.

She did HUGELY powerful work on ages 3-6. When I read Montessori, and don't agree...I look for where I'm wrong. While her work was primarily with low-achieving kids, her method of massive feedback is roughly unparalleled even today. I am not thrilled with the general "Montessori" school as we see it today, but I have no end of respect for the educational thinker/practitioner that was Maria Montessori. Not just in math, but in almost everything.

Was that your question?

Isegoria said...

I asked because I recently read a bit about Dr. Montessori's experiments to find out which materials held children's attention, and it sounded very, very Aretae to me — but I was under the impression that you did not send your own kids to a Montessori school.

imnotherzog said...

Very helpful.

Specifically, I think I finally see that all the action is in point (B) -- but I'm still not convinced your understanding is all that important. I'm reminded of Johnson's famous quip about Bishop Berkeley:


After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley's ingenious sophistry to prove the nonexistence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it -- "I refute it thus."

Boswell: Life

Aretae said...

Herz,

I'm glad to have communicated finally, despite my strong preferences against some of your strong preferences.

The difficulty you have, then...is that I am arguing empirically...and Feser is arguing in a Berkeleyite fashion: It must be so.

My response is the one of Thomas Reid or Mr. Johnson...you are speaking in air, where flowery words may make anything seem true to the gullible, or even to esteemed peers. Let us talk instead about the world...starting with the world.

Incidentally, Reid's response to Hume was much the same as Reid's response to Berkeley..."so what". The correct (IMO) response to Reid by Hume was: what we have shown is that one ought to be somewhat to substantially less certain from teh get go of complex chains of reasoning from a metaphysical base (like that of Feser).

imnotherzog said...

"The difficulty you have, then...is that I am arguing empirically...and Feser is arguing in a Berkeleyite fashion: It must be so.

My response is the one of Thomas Reid or Mr. Johnson...you are speaking in air, where flowery words may make anything seem true to the gullible, or even to esteemed peers. Let us talk instead about the world...starting with the world."

No, now I'm the one not being clear. Remember I rather cryptically said that "I'm still not convinced your understanding is all that important." What I meant was your understanding in the context of (B) -- your understanding of the apple, which you claim doesn't exist independently of me. I think that statement seems to put you on the side of Bishop Berkeley -- you are claiming that we can only know the world through a glass darkly. Feser and the A-T philosophers are happy to talk about the "world...starting with the world." But they claim that we can kick the rock and touch the rock and get to know something real about the rock that is meaningful. They claim we can understand the rock -- all of us -- not just you, me, or Bishop Berkeley and we can come to an agreement on what the rock is. Or at least we should try.

Aretae said...

Herz,

Sorry...for the half-intentional misinterpretation.

I'm pretty sure you don't want to pursue the line of argument that you're opening up. It doesn't go your way. Let me show you:

You say:
"Feser and the A-T philsophers [...] claim that we can understand the rock .... and we can come to an agreement on what the rock is..."

We agree on what the rock is. It's the REST of Feser's line that's nuts.

We've been trying for ~2500 years in the West to come to agreement on metaphysics and such. Very simply, we've failed. Plato had an answer, Aristotle had a different answer, Augustine had a 3rd answer, and Acquinas had a 4th. Berkeley tried, Kant tried, Hegel tried...and they all disagree. But there are adherents of all schools now. The _ONLY_ sane start-from-rocks position is that metaphysics is as useless as Berkeley.

It appears, starting with the world, that Feser & Aristotle's style of Deductive reasoning starting from first premises CANNOT reach agreement between intelligent me. The only reasonable response then is to dismiss the METHOD, just as Johnson dismissed Berkeley...for non-inductive reasoning about stuff I cannot touch/see has NEVER reached consensus.

Indeed...the only topics on which we have consensus, and the only ones on which we've ever had a consistent, unenforced consensus, are those which are predictive...namely the scientistic approaches, unencumbered by philosophy, that Feser dislikes so much.

Taking induction seriously says that Deduction about stuff not-like-rocks doesn't (ever?) work outside of physics. And you REALLY don't want to go there.